There are many signs that give reason to fear that projects are being spawned to cause internal disorder or strife, beginning with the explosions in Christian areas and ending with the controversy about the report of the international commission investigating the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, not to mention the reverberations of UN Resolution 1559, which calls for the disarmament of Hezballah and of the Palestinian camps.What are your predictions for the near and distant future in political and security terms?

I'm naturally predisposed to look not at the empty part of the glass, but rather at the part that's full. We've achieved a qualitative leap forward and the points of agreement among the Lebanese are now more numerous than the points of division on all subjects of contention. Thus, for example, the parties of March 14 and March 8 are now represented in the government, in which we do not discern any disagreements like those that occurred previously. We note the sincere desire of ministers to deal with complex issues, and do so with realism, through dialogue. In regard to Resolution 1559, I don't believe anybody wants to see the Army disarming the Resistance by force, or to bring in an external force to do so. On the contrary, we detect a complete understanding of Hezballah's sentiments, an appreciation of its struggle and of the exploits it has achieved. Of course this party, together with the Amal Movement, represents a large part of the Lebanese population, whose stances and aspirations we must understand. I believe there is unanimity on this subject. In regard to the Palestinian cause, the position of the prime minister [Fuad Saniora] on arms inside and outside the camps enjoys a certain political support.

MANY TIME BOMBS HAVE BEEN DEFUSED

Don't you think these issues could be time bombs likely to explode at the appearance of the slightest disagreement, the more so since no serious dialogue has been undertaken about them?
My late father, Sheikh Pierre Gemayel, had a realistic approach to the situation in our country. We live in Lebanon, he used to say, as if we had accepted the conditions of existence on the edge of a volcano. That's how our country has been since 1920, date of the proclamation of Greater Lebanon; the country has been repeatedly confronted with time bombs represented by a multiplicity of antagonisms. Our family has played a great role on this level and my uncle, Sheikh Youssef Gemayel, was part of the delegation that went to the Versailles conference [1919-20] to negotiate in the context of Greater Lebanon. We mustn't forget that in 1943 the Christians, or a large part of them, did not want to renounce the French mandate. We undertook the battle for independence and the Kataeb Party was the cutting edge in the struggle, in which Sheikh Pierre led both the Kataeb and the Najjadés.

And it was the same in our relations with the Palestinians. We fought hard battles with the Resistance, and relations with Syria were as well so many time bombs that had to be dealt with. The Lebanese people were able to defuse these bombs and overcome them. The latest exploit consisted in bringing together the supporters of March 14 and those of March 8 in the Council of Ministers. The Lebanese people have shown a desire and determination to defuse these time bombs which have hampered their progress.

DIALOGUE WITH HEZBALLAH

What has been holding up a dialogue with Hezballah?
Dialogue is not something incumbent only on the government, which embodies the feelings of people and the objectives of the political forces on the Lebanese scene. The subjects to be discussed have a national scope. Relations with our Palestinian brothers go back to 1948-49. Their presence on Lebanese territory was in itself a problem on the political, social and security levels, given the particularly delicate fabric of Lebanese society. The Palestinian element undoubtedly influenced the situation for reasons we need not go into now. The matter of Hezballah and the camps is a national responsibility in the sense that we are all concerned in it and we must all help to resolve it. Our treatment of it begins with a closing of Lebanese ranks on the level of the leaderships faced with the Palestinian cause and with the problems it raises on the Lebanese scene. The solution begins with understanding among the Lebanese themselves and to the extent to which this entente is strong, it will be easy to deal with the problems posed by the Palestinian presence in our country.

What's to be done about the Palestinian factions not under the authority of President Mahmoud Abbas and who refuse to negotiate about the weapons held outside the camps?
When the Lebanese reach an understanding among themselves, especially the political leaderships, and when the political authority reaches agreement, through this unanimity, with the Palestinian Authority, it will become easy to deal with the "rebel" factions, which will be isolated. It will then be possible to reach a solution on the basis of the national constants. Agreements, decisions and stances exist that are difficult to renounce. I cite for example the Lebanese and Arab recognition of the Palestine Liberation Organization as the sole representative of the Palestinian people.

NOTHING JUSTIFIES THE MAINTENANCE OF PALESTINIAN ARMS OUTSIDE THE CAMPS

Does the Arab world as a whole deal with the matter on this basis?
The whole Arab world, including Syria, recognizes the Palestinian Authority as the extension of the Palestine Liberation Organization, which it has replaced. A Lebanese unanimity in 1987 in Parliament on the annulment of the Cairo Agreement of 1969. That is why nothing justifies the maintenance of Palestinian arms outside the camps.

From the moment that a dialogue is undertaken between the Palestinian Authority and Israel, we must respect it and await its results. If such a dialogue bears its fruits, it would be in the interest of everyone; if it does not, we would have sufficient time to discuss with the Palestinian Authority ways of confronting the new situation on the ground.

It's not reasonable that Lebanon, weakest link in the chain, should confront Israel alone. If they [the Arabs] were so concerned about preserving the Palestinian cause, why don't they open the Golan front? Are the Lebanese more nationalistic or braver than the people of the Golan or of Syria? The infrastructure of the Palestinian organizations comprising the rejection front, such as the Popular Front, is located in Damascus, and it would be easier for them to carry on the struggle from the Golan Heights.

It's not logical to maintain all these Palestinian blockhouses and military fortifications that we've seen on television. They've been there since the 1970s and were quite unable to prevent the Israeli invasions of 1978 and 1982. All these fortifications are therefore only for show and were set in place for objectives having nothing to do with the Palestinian cause or with Arab causes. That is why I call for a comprehensive Lebanese understanding, on the basis of the constant national principles, of the agreements and the laws; at that moment our dialogue with the Palestinian rejection front will become a fraternal one. One should no longer use the Palestinians for conflicts in which they have no interest.

CONFLICT OF REGIMES AND INTERESTS
What is your reading of the tensions between Syria and the United States, on the sidelines of UN resolutions 1559 and 1595 and of the inquiry into the assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri?
All this confirms what I have always said, namely that Palestinian action is used for purposes having no relation to Lebanon or to Arab causes. It's a matter of a conflict of regimes and interests, and this is what must be understood by the Palestinian people and the Lebanese leaderships, which have still not taken a clear stance on this matter.

It's true that Syria uses certain Palestinian factions on the Lebanese scene for strategic objectives on the Arab level. But this is dangerous and won't benefit it in the medium term. We want only a constructive relationship with Syria, which should reconsider the nature of its relationship with Lebanon. Lebanon for its part can become a support for its neighboring country and serve its political and security interests. This is what all Lebanese hope for, and Prime Minister Saniora has said he is ready to consolidate Lebanese-Syrian relations in the common interest of the two countries.

How far can Syria influence Hezballah's strategy and its regional orientations?
As with all the other parties active on the Lebanese scene, there are lines of affiliation with external powers and authorities. Thus, the Lebanese Catholics have an affiliation with the Vatican while at the same time maintaining their loyalty to Lebanon, for any allegiance outside the national framework is an error and prejudicial to the nation.

In the same way, Hezballah is a Lebanese party and the Shiite community is part of the national entity. Its experience on the communal level has been seen to be positive from the point of view of national understanding and integration as well as from that of support for national causes.

And following the latest developments on the local scene, I am more sure of the loyalty of the party to the Lebanese homeland, being one of the fundamental elements of sovereignty, of the democratic system and of liberties, which serves the interests both of Hezballah and of the Shiite community. This is proved by the fact that, for the first time, it has agreed to be represented in the cabinet, contributing by this fact to the definition of national options through the dialogue in which it engages with the various components of our people, even with those that do not take stands identical to its own on certain matters. There are positive indications in regard to the "Hezb", and I stress the necessity of seeing the glass half full, not half empty.

We are emerging from a particularly difficult period of our history, during which our country was for 30 years deprived of sovereignty over its land and its free decision, which paralyzed state and constitutional institutions, and even those of political parties, pushing the country towards an execrable militia spirit, reviving internal conflicts and provoking deep cleavages within our social fabric. I now detect positive indications as to people's sincere desire to go beyond the previous stage and to consider the future in a consensual spirit. All Lebanese parties and currents speak only of the future, of the consolidation of the internal scene and of sovereignty, in order to promote the democratic process and liberties in Lebanon.

Isn't your optimism tinged with a certain disquiet arising from the fact that we have still not completely left behind the mine field of the security situation?
I speak with realism since I have my feet on the ground. I once exercised power and I know the meaning of it and I assume my responsibilities. That's why I speak from a realistic point of view, not a theoretical one, and I know what I'm talking about. At a given moment, when I was listening to a recent speech by Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, I believed I was listening to my father, Sheikh Pierre Gemayel. A transformation has taken place on the level of certain leaderships, which speak of national sovereignty, liberty and consensual democracy. We did not hear such words in the past, in the time of the Syrians when, for some among our fellow-citizens, sovereignty consisted in adopting the Syrian strategy, even at the expense of Lebanon, while democracy was practiced at the expense of the minority and liberties exercised on the model of the intelligence services, which determined the framework of freedom in our country. Let us focus our minds on the positive aspects of the new situation.

How do you explain the fact that Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, general secretary of Hezballah, has adopted the slogan of the martyred President Bashir Gemayel in regard to the 10,452 square kilometers, i.e. the extent of Lebanon's total land area?
It's one of the positive aspects I've mentioned. In the past the fact of evoking the names of certain Lebanese families or certain political parties was taken as a sort of provocation. Today, however, Amin Gemayel visits Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, Hezballah is in touch with the Lebanese leaderships and goes to Bkerki to dialogue with Patriarch Sfeir, while people of all communities and persuasions meet and embrace one another. We've taken a great step forward on this terrain. Now, here I am receiving you at the Central House of the Kataeb Party. Did you imagine that you could be seated in the very office of Sheikh Pierre Gemayel, having this interview here with me?

Do you regard yourself as occupying the headquarters of the party?
I don't want to enter into these considerations. Did you expect, six months ago, that Syria would evacuate Lebanon? The aspiration of most politicians went no further than seeing a redeployment of Syrian troops in the Bekaa in a first step before a total withdrawal. Did you imagine March 14 and March 8? Why do we still persist in focusing on negativisms?

But in security terms the situation is still far from reassuring.
I repeat that we are emerging from one era and entering another. For 30 years Lebanese institutions were paralyzed and the Army was lost in its doctrine, while the judiciary was politicized or prevented from moving in the right direction. Everyone recognizes this, even Nasri Lahoud, former president of the Higher Council of the Judiciary, who said things about the Palace of Justice and what happened there that no one before him had said. We are rebuilding the institutions of the state from zero.

POLITICS BECOMING NORMAL
Will the present stage be long?
Certainly. In all frankness, I was expecting it to be more difficult. I note two phenomena: first, political life in Lebanon has become normal, contrary to what is happening in Iraq and other countries, and the credit for this is due to accord among the Lebanese. And second, no one has dared to adopt the negative action of the "ghosts".

It wasn't like that before. Thus, when Bashir underwent martyrdom [in September 1982], the one who assassinated him was considered then by some as a hero. But today, no one dares to boast of committing such crimes, which provoke unanimous condemnation.

Today, condemnation alone is not enough. That's why it's important to set in place security organizations and intelligence services as well as to rehabilitate the judiciary. The government is tackling these tasks in a one-hundred-percent Lebanese spirit, its sole concern being to preserve the nation, not as it was in the past, when 90 percent of the government's preoccupations were expressed outside the interest of Lebanon.

What do you expect from the international inquiry commission in the light of the controversy about its mission?
Let's leave the commission to get on with its work. It is headed by a judge well known for his competence and probity. Why should we indulge in speculations? Let's wait for the end of the investigation in order to judge the report of the inquirers.

Are you confident that the truth will be declared and that the Mehlis report won't be politicized?I have full confidence in the head of the commission and his team. The investigation isn't limited to Lebanese, Syrian, French or American justice; it's an international commission and Mr. Mehlis knows quite well that the final decision is not within his remit but in that of the court which will give a ruling on the assassination of Premier Rafik Hariri. The members of the court will have various nationalities and will have no link with anyone. Its task will be solely to proclaim the truth. And I don't doubt that Judge Mehlis is keen to safeguard his reputation and I don't think he's capable of going through the motions of issuing a report that doesn't possess the required credibility. That's why we have to wait for the end of the investigation.

How do you explain the extension of the commission's mandate to December 15?
As far as I know, the Mehlis report will be made public on October 21 and the purpose of extending the time period will be to judge the repercussions of the report on the judicial level and for considerations of a technical kind on the basis of which the indictment will be drawn up.

THE PRESENT SITUATION MAY LAST FOR TWO YEARS

Does the campaign against President Emile Lahoud have political motives based on his complete cooperation with Prime Minister Saniora?

Lebanon is paying the price for this, as are the citizens. We needn't get involved in assigning responsibilities. Could the present situation continue for two years? When such a situation occurs in democratic countries, the Parliament is dissolved, but that's not provided for in our Constitution. We've now entered a tunnel. It's true that Premier Saniora has the capacity of adapting himself to the situation and of acting with wisdom, but the state pays the price.

Should we attribute to President Lahoud responsibility for the delay in making administrative appointments, in which he has had no share?
In fact, it is incompatibility that has held up the appointments. In regard to the arrest of certain officials of the security services, the fact that they are under suspicion must embarrass the president. It's difficult to convince public opinion that they acted without the knowledge of the head of the state.

Do you foresee his resignation?
This is something he has to decide. The president can be removed either through his own resignation or in accordance with an article of the Constitution relating to the trial of presidents. When I was a member of Parliament, the legislature ratified a document calling for the removal of President Sleiman Franjié, but he didn't step down. The Lebanese Constitution doesn't give Parliament the right to remove a president, but it does provide for recourse to a special tribunal set up in accordance with particular rules..

PROUD OF MY TERM IN OFFICE
How do you see the fact that many of your allies of March 14 have expressed doubts about your responsibility for the agreement of May 17, 1983, as well as other matters during your term in office?
I don't know that there's any such doubt. In any case, my relations with all sides are excellent. I'm proud of what I accomplished during my mandate: I safeguarded the existence of Lebanon and its system in the worst circumstances, when the capital was invaded by Israel, while Syria occupied a large part of Lebanese territory, while the Palestinians and Iranians did as they pleased on the local scene. I was able to safeguard Lebanon's existence and system while affirming that neither Syria nor Israel had any permanent hold over it. History will one day bear witness to my efforts to maintain the spirit of Lebanon, its existence and its message, in the worst period. We would not have reached agreement on the Taef accord if we had not safeguarded the base during my term. On the economic level, despite the difficulties of the moment, I was able to achieve a miracle by maintaining the economy and the level of the national currency. At the end of my mandate the public debt stood at about one billion dollars, while today it has reached about 40 billions.

JE NE BRIGUE AUCUN POSTE
Etes-vous candidat à la présidence de la République?
Après mon retour d'exil, j'ai dit et je le répète que je ne brigue aucun poste. Je déploie des efforts concernant les Kataëb, parce que c'est, pour moi un devoir et tout le monde connaît mes sacrifices et les efforts que j'ai déployés pour réunifier le parti.

Why is responsibility laid on you for the fall in the parity of the Lebanese pound in relation to the dollar?
My political opponents can say what they like. We're speaking in terms of facts and figures. Statistics provided by the Bank of Lebanon indicate that the public debt was then less than 800 million dollars, while today it stands at 40 billions, despite very unfavorable circumstances. We began the rehabilitation of the infrastructure and had just emerged from the Israeli invasion. During my term, the dollar was exchanged for less than 300 Lebanese pounds. After I left the presidency, it fell to 3,000 pounds to the dollar, eventually stabilizing at 1,500 pounds to the dollar, a level it stands at today. We maintained the value of the national currency and contact among the Lebanese. The most important thing is that, following the assassination of the martyred Prime Minister Rashid Karami, we preserved the unity of the state, the institutions and the Army.

I'M NOT SEEKING ANY POST Are you a candidate for the presidency?
After my return from exile I said, and I repeat, that I am not seeking any post. I'm making efforts in regard to the Kataeb because that for me is a duty. Everyone knows my sacrifices and the efforts I made to reunify the party.

In your opinion, who won, yourself or former Minister Karim Pakradouni, in resolving the conflict?
The first winner is the party, and the first loser is anyone who wishes the Kataeb ill. Next year will coincide with the seventieth anniversary of the party's foundation, and we hope it will have a new birth. It will be a time to recall the struggle of the Kataeb and the party's national stances. It played an essential and vanguard role in the struggle for sovereignty and freedom and was at the same time an essential pillar on the level of dialogue. We passed through a difficult stage because of internal reasons. Today we are closing our ranks and we hope the Kataeb will once again be a force of defense for sovereignty and freedom, an element of moderation and dialogue, and a movement integrating the generations to come. The important thing is to work to pass on to the rising generations the torch we've received from our predecessors. Despite all the circumstances, the Kataeb Party has shown that it is a necessary force on the Lebanese scene because it has not involved the Lebanese people, the Christians in particular, in losing or suicidal adventures.

RECENT VISIT TO WASHINGTON

Tell us about your latest visit to Washington.

It was an important visit, but not planned. During the holding of the Kataeb congress for those living in the diaspora, which I chair every year, I took advantage of the occasion to have talks at the White House, the National Security Council, the State Department and the Pentagon. I was able to visit all the decision-making centers, listen to the opinions of officials on the situation in Lebanon and their readiness to support the Lebanese cause, explaining my own point of view. I have found among officials in both the United States and France a determination to help Lebanon become again the master of its own destiny.

Do they understand the special characteristics of the situation in Lebanon?

Yes, and they consider that Lebanon has its role in the region as an example of democracy and freedom. In the past they weren't interested when the country was divided. My mission consists in convincing foreign officials and persons of influence that there is reason for optimism about Lebanon, and in convincing them of the necessity of boosting the efforts to rebuild our country, its institutions and its economic recovery; and of making it an example for the settlement of the problems of the region.